In this episode of Recruiting Insider, I had the pleasure of speaking with Maya Grossman, an executive career coach who specializes in helping people break through to executive roles. Maya’s insights were invaluable as she shared her personal journey and offered practical advice for those looking to make the leap from senior manager to director level.
Maya’s Journey
Maya’s own career path was a testament to the challenges and rewards of climbing the corporate ladder. She described her early career as a period of drifting without a clear plan. It wasn’t until she realized she was unhappy with her current trajectory that she began to actively pursue a career in marketing.
Despite facing uncertainty and self-doubt, Maya persevered and eventually achieved her goal of becoming a VP of marketing at a major tech company. Through her experiences, she gained valuable insights into the challenges of navigating the corporate world and the skills required to succeed at the executive level.
The Challenges of the Transition
Maya identified two primary reasons why the jump from senior manager to director is so difficult. First, it requires a significant shift in mindset. The traditional approach of working hard and keeping your head down no longer guarantees success at this level. Instead, executives must learn to think strategically, sell themselves effectively, and make tough decisions.
Second, the transition demands a new set of skills. While technical expertise is important, executives must also possess strong leadership, communication, and interpersonal skills. These skills are often not explicitly taught, and many individuals struggle to develop them on their own.
Breaking Through the Barriers
Maya emphasized the importance of a strategic approach to career advancement. She advised listeners to focus on developing their executive mindset, thinking strategically, and delegating effectively. By shifting their mindset from individual contributor to leader, individuals can position themselves for greater success.
Maya also stressed the importance of self-promotion and networking. She encouraged listeners to actively communicate their impact and value to their employers and build relationships with key stakeholders. By showcasing their leadership potential, individuals can increase their visibility and improve their chances of being considered for promotions.
Mindset and Perseverance
Throughout the conversation, Maya highlighted the crucial role of mindset in achieving career goals. She shared the inspiring story of the four-minute mile, emphasizing that breaking through perceived limitations is often a matter of belief. By adopting a CEO mindset and believing in their own capabilities, individuals can overcome challenges and achieve their aspirations.
Key Takeaways
- Shift your mindset: Transition from individual contributor to strategic leader.
- Develop executive skills: Focus on leadership, communication, and decision-making.
- Think strategically: Plan your career path and prioritize high-impact tasks.
- Network and self-promote: Build relationships and communicate your value.
- Persevere: Believe in your abilities and keep striving for your goals.
Transcript:
Mary (00:00.917)
Maya Grossman, welcome to Recruiting Insider.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (00:04.089)
Thank you so much for having me, Marie! Excited to be here!
Mary (00:06.89)
Yes, it’s a pleasure. Maya is a force. mean, her LinkedIn presence, it’s so inspiring to me. I mean, so is her messaging. She specializes in empowering high achievers to break through to executive roles. And I mean, man, I’ve had so many conversations with people who just don’t know how the heck.
to move from a senior manager role into a director level role. I mean, especially if they’ve never held that title before. Maya is an executive coach, a LinkedIn top voice, a best selling author, and a two times VP of marketing with experience at huge companies like Google and Microsoft. And today she helps her clients really demystify.
what it takes to break through to executive roles and, you know, really helping them achieve things that they never thought possible. And so we’re definitely in for a treat today, guys. So, Maya, your own journey has been, I mean, nothing short of amazing. So could you tell us just a little bit more about you and your background and why you do what you do today?
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (01:31.071)
And thank you so much for that lovely introduction. We always see the highlight reel, right? So it definitely didn’t start this way. I wasn’t really sure what I wanted to do early in my career. So the first seven years I kind of drifted. I took a job and I stayed there. But there was no plan. There was no strategy. It wasn’t my dream. It was just really convenient. Until one day it wasn’t anymore.
Mary (01:33.726)
Mm -hmm.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (01:58.51)
And I had this little light bulb moment of this is not what I want to do for the rest of my career. I just didn’t know what else was out there. So I started doing some research. I was doing my bachelor’s at the time and I really liked marketing and I thought, Ooh, maybe I can have a career in marketing. And I just didn’t know how do I make this transition? How do I do it without taking a step back? mean, I’ve had seven years of experience in the workforce.
Was I just supposed to start from scratch? I didn’t like that. So I really had to go through so many different processes and changes to understand how do I build the career of my dreams? How do I keep leveling up? How do I make sure that I’m getting the right exposure, visibility? And it took me almost 15 years to make it all the way to that VP role, which was my dream. But I had to do most of that alone.
And there was a lot of trial and error, there were a lot of nights crying because I just didn’t know what to do and I was frustrated. And as I was learning, I was sharing everything with friends, with colleagues, with my employees, and they all really liked my advice. And one day, I just thought, wait, can I just do that for a living?
Mary (02:58.427)
Mm
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (03:17.902)
And after 15 years in the corporate world, I was like, okay, I feel like I want a new challenge. And I just decided to quit my job and start my own business and help people break into those senior roles because that is actually the hardest thing to do in corporate. The early years, you just work really hard, you gain some skills, you’re gonna get the recognition. But at that senior manager level, give or take,
Mary (03:37.773)
Mm
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (03:43.938)
That’s when it all changes. It’s not about hard work, it’s not about doing more, and most people don’t know, and they get stuck. And if you’re a high achiever like me, you care about your career. You wanna do more, you wanna have a bigger impact. You actually find fulfillment in that growth, and when you can’t have it, it can be really frustrating. But yeah, that’s kind of how I became an executive career coach.
Mary (04:10.687)
I love that. And I think that a lot of people can probably relate to you and that, you know, I love that you shared that you felt really alone during that time too, because I think a lot of us feel that way where we’re just going through the motions or we’re going, you know, about our day to day and doing everything that we possibly can. mean, you know, literally like you, so many of us are just, you know, kind of working our asses off to earn that promotion, right? And then, yeah.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (04:36.225)
Yeah. That was me. I can get anything done. Getchydoneperson right here.
Mary (04:40.478)
my gosh, yeah. my goodness. And I can relate to that so much too, where it’s like, I can work my ass off until, you know, the cows come home and, know, sometimes that doesn’t lead to where you want it to lead unless you’re very strategic about it. You know, in many cases people just end up getting overlooked. So why do you think, or I guess why is the jump from senior manager to director so hard?
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (05:08.524)
I think it’s for two reasons. The first one is more just based on mindset and what we believe. And throughout our entire lives, we’ve been told, you know, do your work, keep your head down, you’re gonna get the reward. And it worked really early. You listened to your parents, you did what they said, you got the reward. It worked in school. To an extent, it worked, you know, when you go to college, but the workforce is a little bit different. So first, it’s a mindset shift. It’s not the person who works the hardest.
that actually gets the recognition. And the second thing is it requires completely different skills. It’s no longer about what you can do as an individual or how good you are. It’s about understanding strategy. It’s about learning how to sell yourself. It’s a skill that lot of people try to avoid because it feels really uncomfortable. It’s about learning how to make tough decisions, how to say no, how to network and really connect with people in the organization.
And those skills, first of all, no one really teaches you those skills. You’re kind of expected to just figure it out. And no one even tells you this is what matters most. So, so many people get stuck in that loop of working harder and harder and harder and keep getting that, you know, rejection. And they don’t understand why. And you know what happens often, which kills me? A lot of the most talented, amazing people…
take that rejection as a sign that they’re just not good enough, that they’re never gonna get there. And they stop and they downgrade their dreams. They tell themselves, well, maybe it’s not for me, I’m just gonna stay where I am. But they end up compromising. And if you work with me a little bit, you’ll get to know me.
Mary (06:40.207)
Mmm.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (06:53.544)
I do not do compromise. I do not do average. We are here to have unbelievably fulfilling and exciting lives and careers. So I believe in going after your dreams, not downgrading your goals, but actually upgrading your reality.
Mary (06:55.171)
Yeah.
Mary (06:59.651)
Yes.
Mary (07:10.444)
Yeah, man, I love that. That’s so empowering. You know, and again, I think that it’s so relatable. You know, like I mentioned, I’m a huge get shit done kind of person and I’ll put my head down. I’ll work my ass off and you know, for better, for worse, I actually kind of pride myself in doing that. And so it sounds like it’s not, you know, like the grinding isn’t the ticket to getting that promotion, like you said. So how do you actually move from that?
you know, get shit done person to an actual strategic partner.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (07:44.834)
First of all, work ethic is important.
And usually the first step is to work hard to gain some of those baseline skills to start moving up the ladder. So that’s definitely something you need to take into account. So I’m not saying you’re never gonna have to work again, but you need both. It can’t be the only thing. And I think where the challenge is, people, because they’re so obsessed with doing more, they never make time for the things that they think are not important, right? So for example, thinking strategically.
Mary (07:59.053)
Yeah,
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (08:15.039)
It doesn’t just come to you.
It’s a process you need to make time on your calendar. And I think people find it really weird. Wait, I’m gonna block time to think? That’s not work. I’m cheating, right? It’s not my job. Or maybe you wanna try and really get into that strategic thinking at 5 p when you’re done with meetings. trust me, at 5 p you’re not really gonna have the best ideas, but if it’s the last priority, you’ll never get there. And you look at those people who can think on their feet and always have ideas.
Mary (08:25.44)
He
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (08:47.543)
and we think, my God, they’re so talented. No, they’re just prepared because they took the time. So I think that’s one example of what you can start doing. You actually need to make time. But now comes the question, well, Maya, I am already doing so much, right? I mean, I am working every single day. I’m swamped. have meetings. How do I do this? And that is where that executive thinking comes into place.
Mary (08:59.808)
Yeah.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (09:14.826)
you need to learn how to delegate, automate, or eliminate work that is not serving you and your career goals. And I think a lot of people are really scared of doing that because we think if we own everything, then we’re important and we’re valuable. But the higher up you go, it’s less about what you can do.
And it’s more about, you lead other people? Can you get the results more efficiently without you putting in all of those hours? So I think it’s also about the kind of work that you do. How can you spend less time on the execution and the tactics and more time on the strategy and the decision -making? And it’s a process. Most people don’t just go from one day, I’m doing everything to the next day, I’m not doing anything.
But to kind of put yourself on that path, you need to start thinking about delegating, eliminating, and automating some of the work. And I think that’s where a lot of people struggle. They don’t want to let go. They think I’m invaluable because I can do the work. But that is actually what’s keeping them stuck.
Mary (10:18.702)
Mm -hmm.
Mary (10:25.09)
Yeah, and I completely agree. you know, and again, I can completely relate to this as well. And this is a conversation that we had before we even started the podcast. you know, man, I’m feeling like I feel like you gave me a little bit of coaching there where it’s like, hey, Mary, you should really do these things. And I’m like, no, you know, I’ve been pushing them back for for a while. And a lot of them had to do with delegation automation and eliminating work that just, you know, takes up a lot of time. And it’s something that somebody else can do.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (10:40.736)
You
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (10:49.559)
you
Mary (10:54.293)
And, you know, I can relate and I’m sure a lot of other, you know, women and men and, know, just people in, in the corporate space, you know, in some of those higher level roles, it’s hard to let go. It’s hard to think like, you know, man, I really could delegate these things and, you know, maybe spend more time on some of those bigger picture strategic thinking things that will position me for, you know, a promotion in the future.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (11:20.513)
Yeah.
Mary (11:24.332)
So could you give us, yeah, go ahead.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (11:24.791)
But I was just gonna say, but it’s kind of the same because the advice I gave you was about business, right? So it’s kind of the same in business and in the corporate world because what I usually teach people and the method that I use is to train you how to think like an entrepreneur.
Mary (11:43.903)
Mm -hmm. Yep.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (11:44.135)
while having a corporate job. How can you use the same tools and skills to really grow inside of the corporate world? So yes, it may not be easy for you to do this as a business owner. And make no mistake, in the first couple of years, I did everything in my business because you have to build it. But there comes a point that the only way to scale or grow
Mary (12:00.274)
Mm -hmm.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (12:06.398)
is to start that outsourcing and delegating. And it’s the same with your career. There’s some point where you have to let that go and hire people who are actually better than you with the execution so that you can make time for the things that actually move the needle. This is why I said it has to start with a mindset shift because as long as you believe that you’re the only person who can do it, you’re never gonna let it go. But once you do, magic happens.
Mary (12:25.544)
Mm.
Yeah.
Yeah. And I love that you said, you know, even in the corporate world, you’re coaching people to think like an entrepreneur because I feel like that will help you also have just more fulfillment in your career too, because it feels like you’re taking ownership of what you’re doing. And I think that that’s a huge piece of it. And it probably ties in a lot to that mindset piece.
And I know that’s kind of the first thing that you’d mentioned with the mindset and the skills and the strategy. So could you talk to us a little bit more about what that actually means to shift our mindset?
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (13:14.441)
Yeah, so I actually have a program that is called Success Builders and the people who come into this program, their goal is to land those executive promotions. And everyone when they come in, they’re like, what’s the strategy? Who do I network with? What do I need to do? And the first three sessions are all about mindset.
Mary (13:26.724)
Yeah.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (13:32.992)
because no amount of strategy is gonna work if you don’t have the confidence to actually go for it, if you’re not motivated to do the work. And I think that’s why a lot of people fail, because they can go online, they can Google stuff, they get advice on LinkedIn, but they never actually do it. And that’s why we start with mindset. And the first thing that I teach is how to develop the CEO mindset, meaning how to think of yourself almost like a business and manage your career like you were managing that business.
And I think that is what gives you that level of ownership because honestly, most people go through their lives like an extra in a movie about their own life, not the hero. They just kind of…
let things happen and they let their manager make decisions about whether or not or when they’re gonna get promoted. They let the economy become an excuse. Well, if it’s bad now, I’m just not gonna try anything. When in reality, there’s so much more that is in our control, as long as we’re willing to be more intentional and actually create those opportunities. So I would say that is the first thing because if you don’t believe you can actually change your life, if you don’t believe that you have
control over what happens in your career, then you’re never gonna try. And I know, not everything is in your control. And if there’s a promotion freeze right now, then it’s gonna be more challenging. But guess what? I have had clients who got promoted this year, even though it’s one of the worst ones from the workforce perspective. I’ve had people get promoted even though their company declared a promotion freeze. I’ve had people get promoted twice in one year. It’s because they…
stopped telling themselves what they can’t do, they focused on what they actually want, and together we found the specific steps, the strategy to get them there. But it has to start with belief.
Mary (15:25.32)
Yeah, yep. I love that. That’s so powerful. And I love the concept of the CEO mindset too. And I kind of want to dig into that just a little bit because I think that’s really intriguing to me. I mean, first of all, what is it? And then can you give us some teasers or some spoilers on how you coach your clients to adopt that mindset?
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (15:49.816)
Yeah, so I’ll tell the story that I tell inside the program because I think it will really explain to people how important mindset really is. So if you’ve never heard it, there’s a story about the four minute mile. And for many, many years, the world believed that no one can run a mile in under four minutes. Doctors actually said that the human heart will explode if anyone tried. So what did everyone do? Not even try, they avoided it.
Until, at some point, Robert Bannister, I believe it was around the 50s, just decided to do it anyway. And he ran a mile in under four minutes. And guess what? Nothing happened. He didn’t die. But that is not even the best part.
Mary (16:28.876)
I
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (16:32.781)
After he was able to do it, the next couple of years, 20 more people were able to break that record because now they believed it was possible. They had an example. So they stopped telling themselves what they can’t do and instead they asked themselves, what do I need to do to make it a reality? And that is how CEOs think. They don’t tell themselves what they can’t do. They focus on the possibilities. What do I need to do to actually get there?
Look, I had a dream to become the CMO of a Silicon Valley startup and when I had that idea, I lived on a different continent, I wasn’t even an executive, and I had no idea how I was going to make it happen. However, for seven years, I kept trying different things. I kept leveling up. I kept trying to create opportunities until seven years later, I got it.
I moved to a new country and became a VP of a startup worth half a billion dollars. But I would never get there if I gave up the first time that things didn’t go my way. But again, that is that mindset. And I like to tell people, you know, if you want to know what’s possible for you, here’s my bar for what is acceptable. If it does not defy the laws of physics, you can do it. The only question is how.
That’s it, and how I can help you figure that out.
Mary (17:57.899)
The four minute mile example, I’ve heard that before too and I think that that’s such a great example and an awesome story because man, it just shows that if you switch your mindset, you can achieve anything and it was obvious that people thought that their heart would explode or they just physically couldn’t run under a four minute mile and when as soon as one person did it, other people are like, it’s possible.
And so then all of a sudden 20 more people are doing it within, you know, such a short amount of time. It’s like, man, I could have done that a long time ago. And, know, and I think a lot of us that are sitting here, like I’m ready for that promotion. It’s like the mindset piece of it is so important to adopt and just truly believe that you can achieve it. And then, you know, once your mindset switches, it’s like, then it’s so much easier to do what you said, Maya. And just to
to keep grinding it out and to keep working hard, to keep taking those steps and to do everything that needs to be done to be able to elevate your career to that next level. And I think that it’s really, the mindset, I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately and I was actually out on a walk with my son over the weekend and he was really tired and just dragging. We had the wagon with us and I was like, he’s…
riding in the wagon and he’s begging for this sucker and he’s like, really, he wants a sucker. So I’m like, well, you have to walk, you know, at least half of a mile to earn your sucker. And he’s just dragging. So then I have this whole conversation with him about his mindset. I was like, okay, try this, you know, if you tell yourself that you have a ton of energy and you’re really excited about this walk and then, you know, try to walk and see how you feel. it…
I mean, even in him, you know, he’s five years old. It made a huge difference almost immediately when he goes from, I can’t do it. I’m so tired to, yeah, you know, the mindset shift. It’s like, man, now I’ve got a ton of energy to go on this walk. So it’s, you know, it can be used on a lot of different levels.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (19:54.253)
You
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (20:05.48)
I know, and actually a great story. So the first time I kind of realized that our brains are so important and we need to be in control of how we feel and how we think, it actually came from a workout DVD. Yes, I’m old, I use DVDs at some point. And it was Jillian Michaels DVD and she basically said, what you believe you achieve. That’s it.
Mary (20:20.535)
Hehehe
Mary (20:24.472)
Mm -hmm.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (20:30.019)
And it kind of stuck with me because it was super easy to remember. And I started applying it to different things in my life and in my career. And I teach it inside the program. And one of the students who’s a mom…
actually told me, I told that to my kids. I wanted them to know that they can pretty much do anything. And a couple of months later, she sends me a text and she’s like, my kids are going anywhere saying what you believe you achieve. When I told them I couldn’t do something, they looked at me and they said, mom, what you believe you achieve, you can do it. So that is the power.
Mary (20:56.324)
Yeah.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (21:07.714)
of having the right mindset. look, I’m very much a realist. I don’t spend a lot of time in the, what we call woo woo, but mindset is actually our brain. It’s how we think. And our brains can be our best friends or our worst enemy. The only question is who is in control? And the default is not us. And that’s why we need to work on almost mental fitness, I guess.
And it’s an ongoing process, by the way. I am not cured. Right? I still feel like an imposter sometimes. I still have fear. I still have doubt. But what I teach is the tools to manage it. So when it happens, you get in it and get out it really quickly, and it doesn’t hold you back.
Mary (21:53.29)
Yeah, awesome. I love that. I could talk about that forever, but I do want to pivot just a little bit because, you know, another thing that we talked about prior to the podcast, and I think, you know, I’ve seen this a lot too, is that, you know, many people just get kind of really comfortable with one employer, which definitely isn’t a bad thing, but it can lead to slower career progression sometimes and sometimes less opportunities for promotions as well.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (21:57.715)
You
Mary (22:21.819)
You know, and as we kind of discussed, know, people who change jobs every couple of years can literally double their lifetime earning. And maybe you can give me some better statistics on that, but could you also talk to us, you know, just a little bit about the potential nuances of searching for an internal promotion versus an external promotion or a title bone?
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (22:32.164)
Yeah.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (22:44.933)
Yeah, well first of all, the research you were talking about came from Harvard and the research said that people who change jobs on average every two years end up doubling their salary. However, it’s not just because they moved.
And I think this is the nuance here. The reason they were able to double their salary is because those people actually qualified themselves for the next level. And when they couldn’t find opportunities with their company, they just took all that new knowledge and skills and experience and were able to get a much better opportunity elsewhere. So most of these moves are not lateral, they’re actually a jump up. Now in terms of…
Should you get promoted internally or externally? I think there are pros and cons to both. It’s really going to depend on what you are looking for. And I can tell you, if you look at my career, I actually had both. I’ve stayed with companies seven and five years, and sometimes it was just 18 months because I kind of hit a cap. And what was guiding me is, do I have more opportunities for growth?
And when the answer was no, when I tried to like expend my role and take on more responsibilities or maybe even apply for a promotion and it didn’t work, that’s when I told myself, I should probably try somewhere else. Now, if you’re optimizing for salary, you probably want to switch companies because you have a much better potential of increasing your salary, your earnings if you go somewhere else.
But if you love where you are, if money isn’t the only object and it’s more about getting that knowledge and experience, see if you can get promoted with your employer. And if at that point the compensation isn’t great, now that you have the title…
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (24:34.243)
go somewhere else and actually get the compensation for it. And that’s what I mean when I say think strategically. It’s never black and white. There are a lot of grays in the middle and different things that you can do. I mean, look at the most common advice when you’re offered a promotion, but you’re not gonna get a raise. And if you go online today, especially on TikTok, you’re gonna see advice that tells you never take a promotion. If you’re not getting a raise, you should not work for free for other people.
Mary (24:43.702)
Mm
Mary (25:00.694)
Yeah.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (25:03.301)
And I actually say yes. That’s probably the worst advice you can give someone because first and foremost, if you’re saying no to a promotion, it is unlikely you will ever get another one with this company. So you basically got yourself stuck at whatever level you’re at. Number two, it is a lot easier to get promoted with a company, a team, a manager who knows you. What I usually suggest is take the promotion, do the work for
two to three months to kind of earn it. So it doesn’t feel like you just got the title and you left, but you actually started working inside that level of seniority and then look for another job where you will get paid your worth, but at the next level. So it’s like three months.
Mary (25:47.816)
We’re frozen here, Maya.
Mary (27:45.202)
It just shows it’s still recording but it like froze and booted me off. I think it’ll merge. Okay, so just keep going with your thought and we’ll… I’ll figure the edit out.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (27:49.546)
Ha!
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (27:54.807)
my gosh, I don’t remember where we were at. okay, we can talk about that. Take for example the most common advice you see on the internet right now, which is do not take a promotion if you’re not getting a raise.
For some reason, people think that is the best advice ever. However, I call bullshit because strategically, it’s probably the worst thing that you can do for your career. Because if you say no to a promotion, it is unlikely you’re gonna get another one anytime soon. So you may actually end up stuck at the same level you’re at. What I suggest you do instead, because I’m not advocating for you to work for free, but I’m advocating for you to think about yourself and what you want most. So take the promotion, do the work for,
two or three months to kind of earn the title so it doesn’t look super new.
And then with that title, go look for a job that will pay you your worth and actually give you that raise or even more. But now the search is going to be so much easier because you’ve earned the title. It’s a lot easier to move from VP to VP versus, you know, I’m a director, make me a VP with this jump. But that is what I mean by thinking strategically instead of just being stuck in your head, I should not work for free. The real question is what can I do to get the most out of this opportunity and end up with
what I want.
Mary (29:19.19)
Yeah, I love that. And I totally agree with you. Yes, it sucks sometimes. mean, being completely transparent if it’s like, have this title raise and more responsibility, but you don’t get the money that comes along with it. But sometimes you have to do what you have to do. You have to do what it takes to gain that experience and to make yourself visible and to really step into strategic roles and do the dirty work. And then if you
keep at it and you’re really good, then the promotions and the pay raises and everything will, they’ll all work themselves out eventually. you know, at least that’s what I’ve seen, you know, in many cases with a lot of the clients that I work with too. It’s like, sometimes you have to kind of swallow that and, know, take the raise and be thankful and, and then the pay will come with it down the road. you know, and I think you told me as well that, you know, a promotion, it’s not only about
just moving and asking for money. It’s about showing that you qualify. And I think that that’s really powerful too. also that it typically isn’t a skills problem necessarily, but a perception problem. And you stay stuck because you aren’t perceived as executive material. So could you discuss how we can communicate our impact and value to
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (30:39.388)
you
Mary (30:46.096)
really make our employers see our potential and actually want to promote us.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (30:52.793)
Yeah, so we talked earlier about the fact that it’s different skills that actually make you an executive, that gets you into those directors, senior director, VP roles. And I think that is the part that people miss the most. And if you’re like me, you’re a high achiever and you’re like, you do the work, you’re okay with it, you like say yes to things because to your point, I want to prove that I can do it. But here’s the problem. A promotion is not a reward for doing your job well.
A promotion is a vote of confidence that you can do things at the next level. And that is what people miss. Because if you just keep doing more of the same, you’re essentially saying, I’m so good at my job that you should never promote me because it will be so hard to replace me. And that’s not what we want.
And I think where that perception problem comes in is if you built your career all the way to senior manager on doing more, being the first one, you you said, I worked my ass off. That was me for seven years. And I could not understand why at some point it stopped working. And the reason was,
Everyone saw me as the get shit done person. They knew they can throw anything at me and it will get done. So I got a lot of stuff, but they were all urgent and not important. They didn’t see me as someone strategic, as someone that needs to make decisions, as someone who’s more of a leader. I was more of a doer.
And when you’re seen as a doer, you’re probably not gonna get those opportunities, even though you have the skills and the capabilities. And honestly, this is what I see with most of my clients. They have everything they need. They could tomorrow become that director, but the people around them don’t see them that way. And when you step into senior roles, it is a lot about perception, how people perceive you. And I’ll even explain why.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (32:44.71)
executive hirings are, and you probably know this, are a lot more expensive because the amount of time and effort it takes to find the right people, then to interview them, and every executive at the company is gonna need to sit on that committee, and that’s time and time is money, and then you need to train them until they’re ramped up. And if you take all of that process, especially if you work for a really big company, that can go all the way up to a million dollars. So hiring the wrong executive is gonna be very,
very costly.
So people don’t want to make mistakes. So how can you prove to them that you are going to be a good executive? Well, you need to actually start doing the work. You want to have that proof that you can do it. And it’s not about how much more can you do. It’s about can you actually collaborate with the right stakeholders? Can you move projects from beginning to end? Can you advocate for yourself and for your team? Can you get the budget? Can you make difficult decisions?
collaborate with difficult people and still move things forward. Because that is what you are going to be required to do at the next level. So instead of waiting for someone to give you permission and tell you, okay, here’s the title, go start thinking and acting like an executive, you do it before.
Mary (34:05.417)
Mm.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (34:05.811)
And if you do that right, the people around you will stop seeing you as the get -shit -done person, and they will slowly start thinking, know, Maya is more of a partner. They start inviting you to the important meetings. They start asking for your opinion until at some point, you’re already one of them, and then the promotion and the title is just a formality. But I think that’s what most people struggle with.
They wait for permission or they think, I don’t want to do work for free, so I’m just going to stay in my lane. But it just doesn’t work. You have to show that you can do the work to get the opportunity.
Mary (34:45.83)
Yeah, I love that. So a lot of our listeners are probably sitting here thinking, okay, Maya, this all sounds really, really good. What do I do first? So what, mean, what are a couple of actionable steps that we could take today to prepare for that promotion?
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (34:56.593)
You
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (35:06.664)
Yeah, so I think, well, first and foremost, I am actually hosting a free master class. It’s something I do a couple of times a year.
I think it’s a little bit different than what you see out there because I actually spent three days teaching. I will walk you through literally everything you need to do to stop making these mistakes, to change your mindset, and then I’m gonna teach you how to sell yourself for those executive roles. So you move from the get -shit -done person to executive material, and that is absolutely free. But if I had to kind of look at all of that, what I teach, and how you can start applying it,
The first thing is you need to decide what you want. Meaning, what is this promotion? You want to have a specific title. You want to know exactly what you are looking at because if you’re open to everything, it’s going to be very hard for you to position yourself for one role. So being super specific. In marketing, we say if you’re marketing to everyone, you’re marketing to no one. It’s the same with your career. So step one, be specific. What is the role that you actually want?
Mary (36:00.727)
Yes.
Mary (36:08.924)
Absolutely.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (36:14.26)
Step number two, you gotta figure out what the next level looks like. And there are a couple of different ways to do that. You can look at job descriptions, although as a hiring manager, I can say job descriptions are wish lists. So they may give you a little bit of a baseline, but I wouldn’t just put all of my hopes and dreams on that. What I actually recommend doing, go talk to people who have the job you wanna have.
Mary (36:33.783)
you
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (36:40.33)
You want to be a director? Go talk to directors. You want to be a VP? Go talk to VPs in your area, in your industry. Here’s why. Because these people literally just made the jump that you want to make. They went through all the challenges and they can tell you what you should do, what you shouldn’t do, what’s important, what’s not important.
They have a network that you want to tap into because they are future employers or future colleagues. And those are exactly the people you want on your side. So clarity about what you want, figuring out what it looks like, what the next level actually looks like. And then you’re going to have a conversation with your manager. You’re not going to ask for the promotion. You’re going to plant a seed. Hey, I love it here, but I actually want to know how I can grow.
Here’s what I think I should do. I would love to get your feedback. And you get feedback from your manager and together you agree on what will be required for you to get promoted. And then you actually do the work, you gain the skills, you develop that internal network and you start advocating for yourself. And after a couple of weeks or a month, you’ve checked in until eventually it becomes obvious that you should get the promotion.
And it is that simple and that hard because it puts everything on you. You need to project manage this promotion thing. It’s not gonna happen by mistake. I mean, less than 9 % of people actually get promoted. And if you wanna be in that top, let’s call it 10%, you’re gonna have to make it happen. It’s not magic. I I like to say, if you’re waiting to get promoted, it’s kind of like…
Mary (38:13.018)
Mmm, wow.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (38:26.238)
waiting for Prince Charming to knock on your door. It only happens in fairy tales. So yeah, so just be proactive. And it kind of takes us back to that CEO mindset. Instead of waiting for someone to save you, what can I do to build and design the career that I want? And I think just most people don’t believe it’s possible. But my students and I, we’re proof that you can do anything you want.
Mary (38:30.321)
It ain’t gonna happen. Yeah.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (38:54.407)
as long as you set your mind to it and you’re willing to do the work. And hopefully that is the bottom line from this conversation today. Anything you’re dreaming about is possible. The only question is, do you have the plan to get there and can you keep yourself accountable and execute? It took me seven years. My clients do it a lot faster. We literally just had someone, she made a five year plan.
Mary (39:17.561)
it.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (39:22.269)
and she got that promotion in five months. And that is what happens when you go through this process. Know what you want, put together a strategy, go after it.
Mary (39:25.134)
Wow, that’s incredible.
Mary (39:33.095)
Wow. Preach it. That’s amazing. I love it. Well, Maya, what are you up to now and where can we find you on social media?
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (39:41.737)
Yeah, well, I am on LinkedIn. It’s where I spend most of my time, just Maya Grossman, but also on Instagram. I’m starting to like that whole video option versus text. So if you wanna get more of my life and behind the scenes, that’s gonna be on Instagram, Maya Grossman as well. But yeah, I’m ramping up for that launch. It’s the last one this year, this masterclass. So definitely don’t miss out because it will be a great opportunity.
Mary (39:52.974)
Mm -hmm.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (40:09.428)
to really put in place the infrastructure to make 2025 your best year ever. And I only do these a few times a year, so definitely a good opportunity.
Mary (40:19.787)
Yes, take advantage of it. Well, awesome, Maya. Thank you so much for coming on today.
Maya Grossman | Executive Career Coach (40:22.642)
you
Yeah, it’s been a pleasure!